Comments on: Is Punishing Game Play More Fun? http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/12/is-punishing-game-play-more-fun/ An Indie Game Developer's somewhat interesting thoughts Mon, 21 May 2012 10:33:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Islam Ossama http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/12/is-punishing-game-play-more-fun/comment-page-1/#comment-57653 Islam Ossama Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:09:17 +0000 http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/12/is-punishing-game-play-more-fun/#comment-57653 Personally, I think it's all about balance. I certainly don't enjoy having to replay the entire last level just because I still haven't figured out how to kill the boss yet, but I also recall a very unsatisfied feeling when the game is too "forgiving" that when I'm done with the game I feel the fun was barely starting with the last level! And, like GB said, it does satisfy a certain part of me to try something a few times before getting it right, while paying an acceptable price for each failure. One thing that does come to mind that tends to maintain that balance for a degree is, as David mentioned, checkpoints. Having automatic checkpoints was great in both Halo and God of War 2, where at certain points you could easily die on your first few attempts, but always there was that checkpoint shortly before the difficult part to save the day. Sometimes it wasn't immediately close, and you usually have to replay through a couple of tough sequences between checkpoints, but it's definitely better than having to replay the last 45 minutes of an already tough level. Agreed, game difficulty is a tricky business. I do agree with Young that games need to be designed with first-time gamers in mind; but I also believe that if a game is too "forgiving" it will drive away as many gamers as it would bring new ones. A game being "cuddly cute" isn't the only reason I would have an unsatisfying game experience; it's all about the balance... Personally, I think it’s all about balance. I certainly don’t enjoy having to replay the entire last level just because I still haven’t figured out how to kill the boss yet, but I also recall a very unsatisfied feeling when the game is too “forgiving” that when I’m done with the game I feel the fun was barely starting with the last level! And, like GB said, it does satisfy a certain part of me to try something a few times before getting it right, while paying an acceptable price for each failure.

One thing that does come to mind that tends to maintain that balance for a degree is, as David mentioned, checkpoints. Having automatic checkpoints was great in both Halo and God of War 2, where at certain points you could easily die on your first few attempts, but always there was that checkpoint shortly before the difficult part to save the day. Sometimes it wasn’t immediately close, and you usually have to replay through a couple of tough sequences between checkpoints, but it’s definitely better than having to replay the last 45 minutes of an already tough level.

Agreed, game difficulty is a tricky business. I do agree with Young that games need to be designed with first-time gamers in mind; but I also believe that if a game is too “forgiving” it will drive away as many gamers as it would bring new ones. A game being “cuddly cute” isn’t the only reason I would have an unsatisfying game experience; it’s all about the balance…

]]> By: David Carlton http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/12/is-punishing-game-play-more-fun/comment-page-1/#comment-57638 David Carlton Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:15:38 +0000 http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/12/is-punishing-game-play-more-fun/#comment-57638 I've been wondering about this for a while. I certainly enjoyed playing Lego Star Wars with my daughter, and the complete lack of consequences for failure was a big part of the reason why. And I also think having a no fail mode in Rock Band 2 is great for pick-up-and-play use. And the easiest way for a game to get me to stop playing it is to have me lose an hour of work. Having said that, I'm not yet sold on a complete lack of consequences. I never turn on no fail mode in RB2 when playing solo or with non-novices. And I've enjoyed trying at something over and over until I succeed, even with sequences that last several minutes. So, right now, my tentative theory is that I'm happy with set piece challenges: I don't mind (frequently enjoy) having to do a coherent segment multiple times until I get it right. But I don't see any point in having to watch cut scenes over and over again, or having to travel to the start over and over again (as with his "weird GTA basketball" analogy.) And I'm flexible enough with the length: it wouldn't surprise me if the PoP set pieces were too short, but I also really don't like the traditional "triple final boss sequence without saves" that you find so often. Hmm, maybe this is also an area where the game could give more choice to the player? Traditionally, the difficulty level of a game affected things like damage but not the amount of checkpoints; maybe, though, easy difficulty should have more checkpoints? I’ve been wondering about this for a while. I certainly enjoyed playing Lego Star Wars with my daughter, and the complete lack of consequences for failure was a big part of the reason why. And I also think having a no fail mode in Rock Band 2 is great for pick-up-and-play use. And the easiest way for a game to get me to stop playing it is to have me lose an hour of work.

Having said that, I’m not yet sold on a complete lack of consequences. I never turn on no fail mode in RB2 when playing solo or with non-novices. And I’ve enjoyed trying at something over and over until I succeed, even with sequences that last several minutes.

So, right now, my tentative theory is that I’m happy with set piece challenges: I don’t mind (frequently enjoy) having to do a coherent segment multiple times until I get it right. But I don’t see any point in having to watch cut scenes over and over again, or having to travel to the start over and over again (as with his “weird GTA basketball” analogy.) And I’m flexible enough with the length: it wouldn’t surprise me if the PoP set pieces were too short, but I also really don’t like the traditional “triple final boss sequence without saves” that you find so often.

Hmm, maybe this is also an area where the game could give more choice to the player? Traditionally, the difficulty level of a game affected things like damage but not the amount of checkpoints; maybe, though, easy difficulty should have more checkpoints?

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