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	<title>Comments on: Why Aren&#8217;t There More Linux-Using Gamers?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/</link>
	<description>An Indie Game Developer's somewhat interesting thoughts</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:27:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: &#38;nbsp Linux Gamers Demonstrate Demand &#38; Support Suppliers &#187; GBGames - Thoughts on Indie Game Development</title>
		<link>http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-58276</link>
		<dc:creator>&#38;nbsp Linux Gamers Demonstrate Demand &#38; Support Suppliers &#187; GBGames - Thoughts on Indie Game Development</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 10:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/#comment-58276</guid>
		<description>[...] asked before: why aren&#8217;t there more Linux-using gamers? But the market exists. It has a significant user base. And they pay [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] asked before: why aren&#8217;t there more Linux-using gamers? But the market exists. It has a significant user base. And they pay [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Diego</title>
		<link>http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-57641</link>
		<dc:creator>Diego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 07:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/#comment-57641</guid>
		<description>Troy Hepfner:

you are a very admirable developer for using and supporting Linux, you already got some fans for that, I guarantee it.

And I&#039;m getting your games to support you :).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Troy Hepfner:</p>
<p>you are a very admirable developer for using and supporting Linux, you already got some fans for that, I guarantee it.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m getting your games to support you <img src='http://gbgames.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: Diego Viola</title>
		<link>http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-57640</link>
		<dc:creator>Diego Viola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 07:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/#comment-57640</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why Aren’t There More Linux-Using Gamers?&quot;

The answer is simple:

There aren&#039;t many Linux gamers because developers still don&#039;t write games for Linux.

It&#039;s a chicken-or-egg problem, make games available for Linux and there will be A LOT of Linux gamers overnight, I guarantee it.

There is a lot of cases of Windows gamers wanting to switch from Windows to Linux completely but they still can&#039;t because the game is not available or Wine wont run it yet.

So make the games for Linux available and you will see how the numbers of Linux gamers grow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why Aren’t There More Linux-Using Gamers?&#8221;</p>
<p>The answer is simple:</p>
<p>There aren&#8217;t many Linux gamers because developers still don&#8217;t write games for Linux.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a chicken-or-egg problem, make games available for Linux and there will be A LOT of Linux gamers overnight, I guarantee it.</p>
<p>There is a lot of cases of Windows gamers wanting to switch from Windows to Linux completely but they still can&#8217;t because the game is not available or Wine wont run it yet.</p>
<p>So make the games for Linux available and you will see how the numbers of Linux gamers grow.</p>
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		<title>By: &#38;nbsp Download Ryan &#8220;icculus&#8221; Gordon&#8217;s Speech at UCLUG &#187; GBGames - Thoughts on Indie Game Development</title>
		<link>http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-56165</link>
		<dc:creator>&#38;nbsp Download Ryan &#8220;icculus&#8221; Gordon&#8217;s Speech at UCLUG &#187; GBGames - Thoughts on Indie Game Development</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/#comment-56165</guid>
		<description>[...] was porting existing, shipped Windows titles to Linux. I wrote about the problem with this model in Why Aren&#8217;t There More Linux-Using Gamers?, and Ryan mentions how low the interest is for people to buy the games they already purchased. He [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was porting existing, shipped Windows titles to Linux. I wrote about the problem with this model in Why Aren&#8217;t There More Linux-Using Gamers?, and Ryan mentions how low the interest is for people to buy the games they already purchased. He [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#38;nbsp Thousander Club Update: March 31st &#187; GBGames - Thoughts on Indie Game Development</title>
		<link>http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-56093</link>
		<dc:creator>&#38;nbsp Thousander Club Update: March 31st &#187; GBGames - Thoughts on Indie Game Development</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/#comment-56093</guid>
		<description>[...] answer the last two questions, read Why Aren&#8217;t There More Linux Using Gamers?. To summarize: they exist. They just need more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] answer the last two questions, read Why Aren&#8217;t There More Linux Using Gamers?. To summarize: they exist. They just need more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Linux Gaming World</title>
		<link>http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-56030</link>
		<dc:creator>Linux Gaming World</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/#comment-56030</guid>
		<description>Hi, we run a website for commercial linux games.  I invite you to check out our games catalog of recently published titles by developers who have decided in favor of Linux support.  You&#039;ll find the link on the website linked below.  The list of available titles may surprise you, because it&#039;s not really a rare event.  That&#039;s really a misconception.

Another misconception is how the Linux&#039;s 1%-3% of desktop market is insignificant.  That&#039;s still an enormous number of users.  As discussed in our essay, &quot;The Loki Demise&quot;, the problem was fundamentally their business plan to release a Linux port 9-19 months after the initial Windows release, at a higher price, and when the original could be found at a discount.  Today, just like back then, people buy the cheaper version or the earlier release, when the two versions run on the same architecture.  (Take a look at Savage 2 and Unreal 3, for modern examples.  Both got the Linux community excited by promises of a same-day cross-platform release, but then they did not fulfill this promise.  Witness the Linux users breaking down and reluctantly buying the Windows-only versions anyway.)

So, those are really the two big misconceptions we are trying to clear up with the LGW website: that there&#039;s no commercial game, and that there&#039;s no market for developing on Linux.

Also, I want to applaud Troy Hepfner, above, for being such a champion of Linux gaming.  His compendium on GameDev is the only complete and up-to-date Linux game development guide that I know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, we run a website for commercial linux games.  I invite you to check out our games catalog of recently published titles by developers who have decided in favor of Linux support.  You&#8217;ll find the link on the website linked below.  The list of available titles may surprise you, because it&#8217;s not really a rare event.  That&#8217;s really a misconception.</p>
<p>Another misconception is how the Linux&#8217;s 1%-3% of desktop market is insignificant.  That&#8217;s still an enormous number of users.  As discussed in our essay, &#8220;The Loki Demise&#8221;, the problem was fundamentally their business plan to release a Linux port 9-19 months after the initial Windows release, at a higher price, and when the original could be found at a discount.  Today, just like back then, people buy the cheaper version or the earlier release, when the two versions run on the same architecture.  (Take a look at Savage 2 and Unreal 3, for modern examples.  Both got the Linux community excited by promises of a same-day cross-platform release, but then they did not fulfill this promise.  Witness the Linux users breaking down and reluctantly buying the Windows-only versions anyway.)</p>
<p>So, those are really the two big misconceptions we are trying to clear up with the LGW website: that there&#8217;s no commercial game, and that there&#8217;s no market for developing on Linux.</p>
<p>Also, I want to applaud Troy Hepfner, above, for being such a champion of Linux gaming.  His compendium on GameDev is the only complete and up-to-date Linux game development guide that I know.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-56029</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/#comment-56029</guid>
		<description>Try www.s2games.com

They are publishers of Savage 2, and Savage. They have done a fair job of keeping the linux crowd in the loop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try <a href="http://www.s2games.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.s2games.com</a></p>
<p>They are publishers of Savage 2, and Savage. They have done a fair job of keeping the linux crowd in the loop.</p>
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		<title>By: Troy Hepfner</title>
		<link>http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-56024</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy Hepfner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/#comment-56024</guid>
		<description>By the way, I forgot to mention that I wrote a series of articles on Linux Game Development last year that were published on GameDev.net. You can read them here: http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/linuxprogramming1/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, I forgot to mention that I wrote a series of articles on Linux Game Development last year that were published on GameDev.net. You can read them here: <a href="http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/linuxprogramming1/" rel="nofollow">http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/linuxprogramming1/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Troy Hepfner</title>
		<link>http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-56023</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy Hepfner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 22:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/#comment-56023</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m the owner of My Game Company, and we&#039;ve released two commercial games so far on Linux: Dirk Dashing, and Fashion Cents Deluxe. I have a lot of experience with cross-platform technologies. I&#039;ve seen OpenGL and OpenAL mentioned, but not SDL. SDL is the cross-platform solution that Keith Weatherey said he we needed above. We use SDL for our input (mouse, keyboard, joysticks, gamepads), and we use SDL_mixer for our audio. It&#039;s easy to use, and very stable across lots of distributions. OpenAL, on the other hand, is very flaky on both Linux and Windows - we started off using OpenAL, and quickly switched to SDL_mixer. OpenAL is solid on the Mac, but we had a number of Windows and Linux users report problems, especially laptop users and users with onboard audio chipsets.

We also develop our games on Linux and port to the other platforms. We use a simple text editor (NEdit) and Makefiles, and ddd for our debugger. While it isn&#039;t a nice integrated solution like Visual Studio, we get along just fine. And I like the simplicity of this system - compiles go very fast, and everything is much more responsive than VS. Plus there are some extremely useful free tools for Linux development, such as Valgrind for finding memory errors and leaks. Valgrind works better than Purify, and you can&#039;t beat the cost. But it only works on Linux.

Plus, I don&#039;t think I have to point out that when I&#039;m developing on Linux, I don&#039;t have to worry about spyware, viruses, or malware interrupting my work. Or my virus scanner kicking in and bringing the responsiveness of my system to a crawl.

We run our business entirely on Linux, from development, art and sound production, bookkeeping, office programs, etc.

I would be happy to talk more about this with anyone who is interested. You can e-mail me at info@mygamecompany.com.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the owner of My Game Company, and we&#8217;ve released two commercial games so far on Linux: Dirk Dashing, and Fashion Cents Deluxe. I have a lot of experience with cross-platform technologies. I&#8217;ve seen OpenGL and OpenAL mentioned, but not SDL. SDL is the cross-platform solution that Keith Weatherey said he we needed above. We use SDL for our input (mouse, keyboard, joysticks, gamepads), and we use SDL_mixer for our audio. It&#8217;s easy to use, and very stable across lots of distributions. OpenAL, on the other hand, is very flaky on both Linux and Windows &#8211; we started off using OpenAL, and quickly switched to SDL_mixer. OpenAL is solid on the Mac, but we had a number of Windows and Linux users report problems, especially laptop users and users with onboard audio chipsets.</p>
<p>We also develop our games on Linux and port to the other platforms. We use a simple text editor (NEdit) and Makefiles, and ddd for our debugger. While it isn&#8217;t a nice integrated solution like Visual Studio, we get along just fine. And I like the simplicity of this system &#8211; compiles go very fast, and everything is much more responsive than VS. Plus there are some extremely useful free tools for Linux development, such as Valgrind for finding memory errors and leaks. Valgrind works better than Purify, and you can&#8217;t beat the cost. But it only works on Linux.</p>
<p>Plus, I don&#8217;t think I have to point out that when I&#8217;m developing on Linux, I don&#8217;t have to worry about spyware, viruses, or malware interrupting my work. Or my virus scanner kicking in and bringing the responsiveness of my system to a crawl.</p>
<p>We run our business entirely on Linux, from development, art and sound production, bookkeeping, office programs, etc.</p>
<p>I would be happy to talk more about this with anyone who is interested. You can e-mail me at <a href="mailto:info@mygamecompany.com">info@mygamecompany.com</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Davis</title>
		<link>http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-56013</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gbgames.com/blog/2008/03/why-arent-there-more-linux-using-gamers/#comment-56013</guid>
		<description>The solution to this issue lies with the community. There are a lot of people just like me that would help make stuff work in WINE and the costs, by comparison to the rest of the project, would fit the size of our demographic perfectly. It might require a few adjustments and advice from the studio&#039;s end, such as provided by a community liason, but it should be minimal.

For this to work, it has to be FOSS model. A paid model won&#039;t work, as Loki found out. There can be a symbiosis between a proprietary software company and FOSS. The result is more games for us, and a (slightly) bigger profit base for the game developer at very little monetary cost.

The developers get a free game out of it and a credit in the credit list.

Everyone wins. I&#039;d do it.

Providing the source code isn&#039;t necessary, just the binaries, but very early in the internal alpha process of a new game so you can identify issues early and possibly get some cooperation early on resolving issues.

By comparison if you use the cedega model, it&#039;s not as good. They have a limited set of developers. We&#039;d have everyone else.  It&#039;s not rocket science.

That&#039;s the best way to get wine packages made. Start a project like cedega, only use the FOSS model. Call it the GoWINE(Gaming on WINE)  project or something. Build debian(and ubuntu), red hat, gentoo, SuSE, slackware etc packages and build them correctly. Also provide a tar file for just untarring in drive_c with a registry patch.

Develop a relationship with the various gaming studios to get them to release alphas to the GoWINE developers so the linux packages are ready on gold day.

We could also submit patches back to the WINE direct x developers for evaluation and possible inclusion in the WINE project where they deem the patch appropriate, well written, and meeting standards.

Of course the cedega guys would put a hit out on you ROFL. I bet it would work very effectively. The game studios might even start throwing incentives at the project to get priority if it became well regarded &gt;wink</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The solution to this issue lies with the community. There are a lot of people just like me that would help make stuff work in WINE and the costs, by comparison to the rest of the project, would fit the size of our demographic perfectly. It might require a few adjustments and advice from the studio&#8217;s end, such as provided by a community liason, but it should be minimal.</p>
<p>For this to work, it has to be FOSS model. A paid model won&#8217;t work, as Loki found out. There can be a symbiosis between a proprietary software company and FOSS. The result is more games for us, and a (slightly) bigger profit base for the game developer at very little monetary cost.</p>
<p>The developers get a free game out of it and a credit in the credit list.</p>
<p>Everyone wins. I&#8217;d do it.</p>
<p>Providing the source code isn&#8217;t necessary, just the binaries, but very early in the internal alpha process of a new game so you can identify issues early and possibly get some cooperation early on resolving issues.</p>
<p>By comparison if you use the cedega model, it&#8217;s not as good. They have a limited set of developers. We&#8217;d have everyone else.  It&#8217;s not rocket science.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the best way to get wine packages made. Start a project like cedega, only use the FOSS model. Call it the GoWINE(Gaming on WINE)  project or something. Build debian(and ubuntu), red hat, gentoo, SuSE, slackware etc packages and build them correctly. Also provide a tar file for just untarring in drive_c with a registry patch.</p>
<p>Develop a relationship with the various gaming studios to get them to release alphas to the GoWINE developers so the linux packages are ready on gold day.</p>
<p>We could also submit patches back to the WINE direct x developers for evaluation and possible inclusion in the WINE project where they deem the patch appropriate, well written, and meeting standards.</p>
<p>Of course the cedega guys would put a hit out on you ROFL. I bet it would work very effectively. The game studios might even start throwing incentives at the project to get priority if it became well regarded &gt;wink</p>
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